材料人专访John B. Goodenough丨要敢于在交流中坦然暴露出自己的无知


John B. Goodenough(约翰·班宁斯特·古迪纳夫)目前为美国德州大学奥斯汀分校,机械工程系教授,著名固体物理学家,是钴酸锂、锰酸锂和磷酸铁锂正极材料的发明人,锂离子电池的奠基人之一,被业界称为“锂电之父”。他对材料科学与技术,特别是锂离子电池领域做出了重要贡献。通过研究化学、结构以及固体电子/离子性质之间的关系来设计新材料解决材料科学问题。更多介绍请见文末!

近日,锂电池之父,美国德州大学奥斯汀分校机械工程系教授John B. Goodenough接受了材料人的采访,我们对近期教授的几项工作以及他对锂电池发展和中国科研的看法做了采访,以下是详细内容:

材料人网:您如何看待锂离子电池的未来?它会被您的最新研究成果取代吗?

JBG:我认为目前的锂离子电池三年内会被不产生锂枝晶的锂金属电池取代,代替我们现在用的石墨负极锂离子电池。

材料人网:超级电池在应用到电动车之前,还需做出哪些改进?

JBG:电动车用电池首先必须是安全价廉的,而且要高倍率充放电的情况下体积能量密度高、使用寿命长。我认为Braga玻璃电解质能够实现所有以上愿景,但是高压下低电阻正极材料尚处于验证和测试阶段。此外,以在集流体上沉积锂金属做负极的电池容量需要进一步的评估。

材料人网:您的超级电池会成为您职业生涯最后的研究成果吗?

JBG:我希望我还能再干几年,我们还有很多东西需要探索。

材料人网:在您研究出阴极之后,您认为还要多久才能实现电池的大规模生产?您可否预见一下未来的困难?

JBG:我认为三年内电池就能实现大规模量产。

材料人网:您94岁高龄仍在努力工作,您的动力是什么?

JBG:科研探索真的十分有趣,21世纪仍面临着很多毁灭性的挑战需要被战胜。

材料人网:您是怎么开始电池技术相关的研究的?

JBG:我是在1969年接触到电化学 跟电池的,当时我应邀负责福特公司1967年发明的钠硫电池项目,就是使用固体陶瓷电解质和熔化电极的那种电池。我非常想找到一种比福特钠-β-铝更好的钠固体电解质,通过与Henry Hong的合作,我们发明了锆磷硅酸盐,也就是现在的NASICON钠超离子导体。之后在1970年爆发了第一次能源危机,美国国会认为我的研究与空军实验室的要求不符,因此我决定放弃过渡金属氧化物转而研究能源材料,并接受了去英国牛津大学当无机化学教授的邀请。

材料人网:您是怎样激发学生创造力的?

JBG:并不是简单地说是我在如何启发学生,而是作为领导,必须对他的研究领域充满热情,不能因为研究成果而变得自负,要平等地看待每个与他合作的人,当别人取得成功时,要乐意去赞赏他们。我们可能会在学术上是竞争对手,但是在生活中却不是这样,要就事论事。

材料人网:您高中是学文科的,本科学的是数学跟物理,研究生又转学了化学与工程,为什么您要换专业呢?您的经历给您的研究带来了怎样的帮助?您希望您的学生换专业吗?

JBG:在二战之前,我本来是文科生,择业十分费时。后来二战爆发,我参了军,停止了找工作的纠结,也就是这个时候我下定决心,如果有机会读研,我就要选择物理专业。在研究生学习期间,我立志要成为固态物理学家而非核物理学家,在毕业时,我意识到我还没有做好当物理教授的准备,因此我来到了一家工程实验室工作,这个工作要求我研究怎样在亚铁磁的尖晶石中实现B-H磁滞回线,而亚铁磁的尖晶石是不能像铁磁合金那样卷成一个很薄的带子的。正是这份工作把我带进了磁学和过度金属氧化物这个领域,使我产生了学习过度金属化合物d电子的兴趣,这是要与化学家一起工作的。正如我前面说的,在1970年我被迫改变了我的研究兴趣,我成了无机化学实验室的固态化学教授。就在我快从英国退休时, 德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校邀请我去做工程首席教授,这样我就有机会继续我的材料工作了。 我的成果要归功于机遇,合作,优秀的同事,还有运气。直觉固然是以经验为基础,但是也要听听内心的想法,要敢于在同他人的交流之中坦然地暴露出自己的无知,要对别人的想法和生命的意义保持好奇心,这会成为思想的源泉和成功的基础。我鼓励学生们谦虚坦然地接受自己,接受成功与失败。

材料人网:您曾说退休后想去研究神学,为什么像您一样的科学家也会相信存在比科学更有力的力量呢?

JBG:我不这么认为,我觉得神学的力量不及科学。我深信我们应该爱这个我们存在的世界,铭记所有幸运与不幸,敌人与朋友。对自然及其运作的科学探索形成了对万物以及支撑它的事物的爱。但是我认为有很多东西是不能用数学的语言描述的,我认为隐喻、寓言也蕴藏了丰富的智慧。工程能够教会我们如何创造,但是我们制造出来的机器是没有感情的。重要的是我们如何去使用这些机器。如果没有智慧,我们可能会摧毁环境和社会,有了智慧,我们就能在人口爆炸中生存,并且带来和谐,而不是带来敌对。

材料人网:您如何看待中国的电池研究?您能给中国科学家一些建议吗?

JBG:中国在电池领域取得了令人印象深刻的发展,但是中国的多数研究都集中在如何改进已有技术,缺乏对革新性的技术的关注。我的建议是要找到真正待解决的问题,然后努力去攻克它们,即使是在取得重大成果之前要花很长时间。

材料人网:您从事随机存取磁存储器和锂离子电池两个领域的研究,那么您认为哪个领域对当前滚球体育 的影响更大?

JBG:首个随机存取磁存储器的问世对电子计算机的发展非常重要,即使高速晶体管的发展实现了用小型磁性存储元件代替,使原磁RAM存储缩小到办公室的大小。锂离子电池实现了微电子的无线化,很多人为了这一发展贡献了力量。

材料人网:电池能量密度还能再大吗?您对下一代电池有什么期望?

JBG:未来几年电池会取得重大的改进 ,包括电池安全性,价格,能量密度,使用寿命,充放电速度等。我不确定能量密度的改进能否给出个“摩尔定律”,就像计算机轻量化那样,我不能遇见相似的发展。

英文版如下:

John B. Goodenough Interview with Amber Zhang Cailiaoren.com

Cailiaoren.com:What you think of Lithium-ion batteries’ future? Will they be replaced by your latest achievement?

JBG:Lithium-ion batteries will, I believe, be replaced within three years by lithium batteries with a lithium anode that is plated dendrite-free replacing the graphite-anode of today’s lithium-ion battery.

Cailiaoren.com:What improvements does it need to power electrical cars with the superior battery?

JBG:Powering an electric road vehicle with a rechargeable battery requires a battery that is safe, low-cost with a high volumetric energy density at high rates of charge/discharge and a long cycle life. I believe all that can be accomplished with the Braga glass electrolyte, but the development of a low-resistance at a high-voltage cathode has yet to be verified and needs more testing. Also, the capacity of a cell with plating of a lithium anode on a cathode current collector requires more evaluation.

Cailiaoren.com:Will your Ultra-Efficient New Battery be the end of your career?

JBG:I hope I can work for another few years; we still have ideas needing to be explored.

Cailiaoren.com:How long will it take to make large scale cells after you working out with the cathode? What difficulties can you expect?

JBG:I believe that large-scale batteries can be on the market within three years.

Cailiaoren.com:What drives you to continue working at age 94?

JBG:Scientific exploration is interesting, and the challenges to modern society in the 21rst century need to be addressed to avert catastrophe.

Cailiaoren.com:How did you start battery work?

JBG:My exposure to electrochemistry and battery work came in about 1969 when I was asked to monitor the development at the Ford Motor Company of their invention in 1967 of the sodium-sulfur battery, which uses a solid ceramic electrolyte and molten electrodes. I was challenged to find a better sodium solid electrolyte than the Ford sodium-beta-aluminum; with Henry Hong, we came up with the zirconium phosphosilicate, now referred to as NASICON for sodium (Na) superionic conductor. The first energy crisis in about 1970 and a decision by the U.S. Congress that my fundamental research effort was not appropriate for a laboratory funded by the Air Force made me decide to change my research from the electric properties of transition-metal oxides to energy materials and to accept an offer to be a Professor of Inorganic Chemistry at The University of Oxford in England.
Cailiaoren.com:How do you create a favorable environment to inspire students’ creativity?

JBG:There is no simple answer as to how to inspire students. The leader must be enthusiastic about his field of work, be without an ego while having ideas about research strategies and the interpretation of experimental results, treat those who work with him as equals, and be willing to give credit where it belongs with delight in others’ success. We need to compete against problems, not against people.

Cailiaoren.com:You are an art student in middle school, and got degrees in mathematics, physics, later on you study on chemistry and engineering, why you change your research interests? Do you think your experience is helpful in your research? And do you encourage students to change their fields?

JBG:My home and schooling before World War II was Arts-oriented, and it took me time to find my calling. My time in the U.S. Army during World War II was a break from this struggle, but I had come to the conclusion that if I had the opportunity to go to graduate school on my return to civilian life, I should study Physics. During graduate study, I decided I wanted to be a solid-state rather than a nuclear physicist; and on graduation, I knew I wasn’t prepared to be a professor of physics, so I accepted a job in an engineering laboratory that required how to develop a square B-H hysteresis loop in a ferrimagnetic spinel that could not be rolled into a thin tape as a ferromagnetic alloy. This choice led me into the field of magnetism and transition-metal oxides where I found my calling to study the properties ofdelectrons in transition-metal compounds, which required working with chemists. As I told you, in 1970 I was forced to change my focus, which led me to accept a position as a solid-state chemistry professor and head of an Inorganic Chemistry Laboratory. That position made me officially a chemist. On approaching retirement from England, I was offered a Chaired Professorship in Engineering at The University of Texas at Austin where I have been given the opportunity to continue working on materials engineering. My research has been guided by opportunities, collaborations with experimentalists, and good fortune. Experience is essential to the development of intuition; but listening to your inner voice, a willingness to expose ignorance with honest questions in dialogue with others and with nature, and a curiosity to understand others and the meaning of life can provide a basis for original thought and fruitful action. I encourage students to accept themselves, their failures, and their successes with humility and yet celebration.

Cailiaoren.com:You once said you want to study theology after retirement, why a scientist believe there are more powerful force than science?

JBG:I don’t believe that theology is a more powerful force than science. I do believe that we should love the creation in which we exist and have our being as well as all people, unfortunate as well as fortunate, antagonists as well as collaborators. The scientific exploration of nature and how it works is a form of loving both creation and those it supports. But I believe there is more to knowledge than what can be expressed in the language of mathematics. I believe personal examples and the art of metaphor and parable communicates the knowledge of wisdom. Engineering provides society with the means to create, but the machines we create are morally neutral. What matters is how we use our machines. Without wisdom, we may destroy our environment and society; with wisdom, we may survive the explosion of human population to bring harmony rather than discord between the different voices of humanity.

Cailiaoren.com:What’s your opinions on china’s battery research? What’s your suggestion to Chinese researchers?

JBG:The Chinese effort in battery research is impressive, but most of its focus has been on doing better what has been tried rather than focusing on radical new ideas. My advice is to identify what are the real problems that need to be solved and focus on these even if these problems require a long road of small steps before the mountaintop is reached.

Cailiaoren.com:You worked on the development of both random access magnetic memory and li-ion rechargeable batteries. Which would you say made the biggest impact on technology today?

JBG:Realization of the first random-access memory was an important step in the development of the digital computer even though the development of fast transistors allowed replacement of the magnetic memory element with an element that can be miniaturized to give more memory in a shirt pocket than the original magnetic RAM memory could fit into an office room. The Li-ion battery enabled the microelectronics to become wireless. The combination has empowered the average citizen, and many people contributed to this development.

Cailiaoren.com:Are we reaching the limits of battery energy density? What are your expectations on next generation batteries?

JBG:In the next few years, we should see a big step improvement in battery safety, cost, energy density, cycle life, and charge/discharge rates. I do not know whether improvements in energy density can provide a Moore’s law over many years like the miniaturization of the digital computer, but I do not foresee a similar progression.

【采访后记】

三句话总结此次访谈重点:

1. 保持好奇心和求知欲。

2.人生处处存在着变化和机遇,不变的是追求真理与科学研究的兴趣。

3.多做基础性和原创性研究,多做可以解决实际问题的研究。

本文由材料人编辑整理,感谢材料人海外专家团队指导支持。

研究方向:过渡金属氧化物、锂离子电池、燃料电池、氧渗透膜。详细的说:他的研究团队生长单晶并且合成新型陶瓷材料。进行化学和结构表征以及高温、高压、元素分析等各种基础研究。从事能量储能和转换材料研究,高温超导超、电子由局部变为流动时的超巨磁阻现象的机理研究,还研究开发了中温固态氧化物燃料电池和氧渗透膜。

教授主要履历
1922年7月25日,John B. Goodenough在美国出生,父母原在德国耶拿市。
1943年,在耶鲁大学获得了数学系的文学士学位,期间为科学哲学所吸引决定攻读物理方向研究生。
二战期间,曾作为气象专家在美国陆军航空部队工作,1948年退役。
1951-1952年,在美国西屋电气公司任研发工程师。
1951年在芝加哥大学获得理学硕士学位,1952年获得固态物理博士学位,师从Clarence Zener(齐纳二极管发明者,诺奖得主,见后续专题:材料、仙童与硅谷)。
1952-1976年,在MIT的林肯实验室进行关于内存的材料物理研究,这是关于Mn3+有关的研究,同时接触到了Li离子在固体中的迁移,随后开始固态陶瓷的基础研究。期间首次发现了铁氧体磁芯的电流重合记忆功能,被称为Goodenough-Kanamori规律,这一发现对电子计算机的发展极为关键,并且对磁性材料以及电子材料的研究起到引导作用,也正是在这个时期写了《磁性键与化学键》和《过渡金属氧化物》两本书。并在此时接触并深入研究了锂离子在固体中的迁移规律。
1976年,进入牛津大学任教授并作为无机化学研究负责人,开始了固体化学研究,主要研究可用于能量转换的新材料,提出了碱金属离子固态电解质的构架结构概念并且获得了以尖晶石层状结构氧化物作为阴极的锂离子二次电池的基本专利,期间还从事太阳能转换光电解和燃料电池催化电极方面的研究。
1980年和SONY公司合作开发出了基于碳材料负极和锂钴氧LiCoO2材料正极的可充电离子电池,也就是目前广泛采用的锂离子电池技术,但是LiCoO2受限于有毒、钴资源稀缺等因素,急需替代材料。
1982年伊利诺伊理工大学(the Illinois Institute of Technology)的R.R.Agarwal和J.R.Selman发现锂离子具有嵌入石墨的特性,首个可用的锂离子石墨电极由贝尔实验室试制成功,从此石墨代替金属锂作为锂电池负极,从此正极材料成为锂电池突破的主要瓶颈。
1983年M.Thackeray和Goodenough等人发现锰尖晶石是优良的正极材料,具有低价、稳定和优良的导电、导锂性能。其分解温度高,且氧化性远低于钴酸锂,即使出现短路、过充电,也能够避免了燃烧、爆炸的危险,大大提高安全性。
1986年从牛津大学退休后,受聘于美国德州大学奥斯汀分校机电工程学院担任教授,成为终身教授,担任美国德州大学奥斯汀分校材料科学与工程中心负责人,研发了固体氧化物燃料电池(SOFC)的新型电解质和电极材料,并且对电子从集中变为流动的交互行为物理现象做出了解释。
1989年,A.Manthiram和J.Goodenough发现采用聚合阴离子的正极将产生更高的电压。
1997年开发了低成本的磷酸铁锂LiXFePO4正极材料,加快了锂离子电池的商业化。磷酸铁锂是目前安全性最高的正极材料,且充放电性能、廉价、对环境无污染,具有优异的电池循环寿命、安全性、低自放电(库存存放寿命非常长),这使得传统镍氢、镍镉电池黯然失色。其广泛应用于手机等无线便携设备、电动工具、混合动力汽车、小型电动车以及欧洲杯线上买球 系统储能,已成为当前主流的正极材料,它对全球经济产生了重要影响,并减少了温室气体的排放。
荣誉称号:
美国物理学会会员
美国化学学会会员
美国国家工程院院士
美国国家科学院院士
英国皇家化学学会外籍院士
印度科学院外籍院士
日本物理学会会员
美国国家材料咨询会成员
美国科学促进协会会员
美国国家研究委员会,固态科学小组成员
荣誉奖项:
波尔多大学,荣誉博士学位(1967)
英国皇家化学学会,百年讲师(Centenary Lecturer)(1976)
英国皇家化学学会,固态化学奖,(1980)
Von Hippel 奖,美国材料研究学会(1989)
宾夕法尼亚大学卓越成就奖(1996)
John Bardeen 奖,采矿、冶金和材料协会(1997)
Olin Palladium奖,美国电化学学会(1999)
日本国际奖,国际科学技术财团(2001)【PS:该奖项授予在科学技术方面取得了独创性的和飞跃性的成果,对科学技术的发展,人类的和平与繁荣做出了重大贡献的人。获奖者多为世界有名的科学家。获奖者可以得到奖状,奖牌及5000万日元的奖金,只授予在世人物。】
美国费米奖,美国能源部(2009)【PS:费米奖1954年为纪念美籍意大利科学家恩里克·费米(Enrico Fermi)而设立,是由美国政府颁发的最负盛名的滚球体育 类奖项之一】
美国国家科学奖章, 美国国家科学奖章委员会(2013)【PS:评选的唯一标准是获奖人的学术水平,获奖者一般是美国某一领域具有重要影响的科学家。到目前为止,一共只有498人科学家获此殊荣,先后有91人次获诺贝尔物理、化学、生理/医学、经济学奖(不含和平奖2人),比例为18.67%。这91人中,大部分科学家都是先获得诺贝尔奖然后再获美国国家科学奖的,但是有23人获得美国国家科学奖比诺贝尔奖早;还有6人同年斩获双奖。】
查尔斯·斯塔克·德拉普尔奖(Charles Stark Draper Prize),美国国家工程院【PS: 美国工程学界最高奖项之一,每二年颁发一次,被认为是“工程学界的诺贝尔奖”("Nobel Prizes of Engineering")之一。该奖奖予推进工程学及工程学教育发展进步的候选人。】
德州大学机械工程系荣誉工程师
电气和电子工程师协会奖
部分学术论文:
1.Mizushima, K., Jones, P. C., Wiseman, P. J., and Goodenough, J. B., "LixCoO2 (0 < x < 1): A New Cathode Material for Batteries of High Energy Density," Materials Research Bulletin 15, 783-799 (1980).
2.Thomas, M. G. S. R, Bruce, P. G., and Goodenough, J. B., "Lithium Mobility in the Layered Oxide Li(1-x)CoO2," Solid State Ionics, 17 (1), 13-19 (1985).
3. Thackeray, M. M., David, W. I. F., Bruce, P. G., and Goodenough, J. B., "Lithium Insertion Into Manganese Spinels," Materials Research Bulletin 18, 461-472 (1983)
4.Padhi, A. K., Nanjundaswamy, K. S., and Goodenough, J. B., "Phospho-olivines as Positive Electrode Materials for Rechargeable Lithium Batteries," Journal Electrochemical Society 144, 1188-1194 (1997).
5. Padhi, A. K., Nanjundaswamy, K. S., Masquelier, C., and Goodenough, J. B., "Mapping of Transition-Metal Redox Couples in Phosphates with NASICON Structure by Lithium Intercalation," Journal Electrochemical Society 144, 2581-2586 (1997).
6. Goodenough, J.B. "Rechargeable Batteries: Challenges Old and New" Journal of Solid State Electrochemistry 16 2019-2029, (2012).
7. Li, Y., Xu, M.W., and Goodenough, J.B., "Electrochemical Performance of Ba2Co9O14 + SDC Composite Cathode for Intermediate-Temperature Solid Oxide Fuel Cells" J. of Power Sources 298 40-43, (2012).
8. Goodenough, J.B. "Reflections on Sixty Years of Solid State Chemistry" "Zeitschrift fur Anorganische und Allgemeine Chemie" 638 1-5 (2012).
书籍:
Goodenough, J. B., Magnetism and the Chemical Bond, Interscience Monographs on Chemistry, Inorganic Chemistry Section, F. A. Cotton, ed., Vol. I (Interscience-Wiley, New York 1963).
Goodenough, J. B., Les oxydes des métaux de transition (Gauthier-Villars, Paris, 1973).
Huang, K. and Goodenough, J. B., Solid Oxide Fuel Cell Technology: Principles, Performance and Operations, Woodhead Publishing Limited (2009).
章节:
Goodenough, J.B. "Battery Components Active Materials for" in Encyclopedia of Sustainability Science and Technology, (Springer, 2012). (in publication)
K. Zaghib, A. Mauger, Goodenough, J.B., and C.M. Julien, "Design and Properties of LiFePO4", in Nanotechnology for Li-ion Batteries, D. Lockwood, ed. (Springer Verlag, Berlin, 2011) Chapter 8.
Goodenough, J.B., "Materials Design: Fundamental Chemistry and Physics", in Advanced Lithium Batteries, Recent Trends and Perspectives, G. Nazri, A. Manthiram, P. Balaya, A. Yamada, and Y. Yong, eds. (Wiley-VCH, Weinheim, Germany, 2012).
自传:John B. Goodenough, Witness to Grace (PublishAmerica, 2008)
Goodenough平易近人,在学生眼中他是一个心胸广阔海纳百川的智者94岁的他依然坚持工作和教学,由于二战时曾作为气象专家为军方外围是什么意思 ,他对团队合作大加赞赏,他说“作为一个士兵,我从没想过凭一己之力赢得战争,最重要的是要尽我所能做好本职工作”现在他有一个庞大的研究团队,孜孜不倦的为欧洲杯线上买球 的发展努力,他常把自己比作交响乐队的指挥,他说:“如果我有什么天赋,那就是创造出能激发别人创造力的环境。”
Goodenough 一生都在不同的专业方向努力,是不折不扣的科学全才。他高中时学习文学,大学专业是数学,战后主攻物理方向。在后来的材料科学研究中,他又学习化学和工程学知识。“团队合作并不仅限于人之间,更是科学学科之间,我们需要找到科学、工程、物理和化学之间的联系。对于个人来说,学校的全面素质教育,不仅是为了前途更是生活。我们必须分清楚受教育和受训练的区别。”
Goodenough涉猎广泛,打算退休之后去研究神学。他相信自然法则,也相信有更强大的力量,曾写过一篇文章《在神的裁决之下》。他说“当我们需要时,有一双神奇的手为我们推开一道道门。”
感谢材料人海外专家团队!
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